Lol hell yeah, John. I'm pretty sure you'll like it--I know there are some moor-like wastelands in Norway to help you conjure up the feels. Don't hold back on those strong words if it does blow.
Well it didn't blow, but it wasn't good either. Some rambling thoughts in no particular order:
-I REALLY liked that upon arriving at the Grange, Lockwood says that Nelly "doesn't seem like the gossiping type" and proceeds to receive 300 pages of the hottest gossip known to man, with no holds barred. The Victorian equivalent of a character saying that they are "not here for drama" on a reality show. Funny!
-I wasn't expecting it to be so horrific. I expected Emma, and I got Bram Stoker's Dracula. Beyond the abuse, sickness, and bleak circumstances, there's literally ghosts? A bit out of left field for me, but interesting.
-In general I was shocked how much of modern storytelling was influenced by this, from videogames to fantasy novels (the weary traveler / meta narrator sitting down by the fire). But most of all...fanfiction, books like Twilight have clearly borrowed a ton from the angel / devil bad boy good boy feud archetype. And I have a few strong criticisms of the book, but one is that the most obvious comparisons can be drawn with fantasy and fanfiction. The characters don't feel real or round, and it's basically hypertext fantasy that allows us to humanize someone like Heathcliff who is basically satan incarnate in the actual written word of the book. Even the "good" characters like Edgar are the most annoying nerd you ever met in your entire life. Catherine (mk I) is interesting and round, and I think it's a good reflection on Bronte's own perspective that the women feel more living.
-You talk about romance, but it's no wonder that the adaptations for film and TV have eluded the final 2 parts where Heathcliff becomes the worst person on Earth. These are not saucy or steamy, it's just pain.
-What it really has going for it is drive and engine, for a story so bleak it still manages to be an evocative page turner that the reader thinks about throughout their daily life. It's captivating and the imagery feels much more lived in and real than the characters. You can feel the damp decay of Wurthering Heights, and think back on times in your life when you went to someone's house and felt the same energy. I had that with one of my best friends. I was maybe 9 when I went to his house on a suburban block in St. Louis for the first time and it felt like everything there was mildewed, dark, and sad. I have remembered that house because of this book. It was terrifying.
-In general I thought reading this produced an interesting reflection on class and expectations and contemporary literature vs. Victorian literature. In comparing Wurthering Heights to Twilight (which I cannot stop doing) the Heathcliff character would have redeeming qualities, be on the surface evil, but actually have a heart of gold, while the Edgar character would be pined for, but ultimately friendzoned. The Jacob / Edward dilemma if you will. That's nowhere to be found here. Heathcliff was born evil and he is evil. There's a bit of agency by Earnshaw in there, but generally speaking he is a sword of revenge and all that's redeeming about him is his power to effect that revenge. You root for him against these poshos when he's a kid, and by the end of the book you really regret rooting for him, at any point. At the denouement I wound up wondering "ok so is the lesson of this book is to not let romani into high society because they'll steal all your shit over time?" and with such a blunt instrument as Heathcliff I really do think is the textual reading of the book. Obviously things are more complicated and he does have motive for his revenge, but he's not a real person, he's a horror. HP Lovecraft could never.
-Really liked Joseph's dialect.
-And for me this is the big lacking of the book, is a point. It's an engaging read, it's terrifying, but I never really felt like it approached any ideas that were enlightening for the reader about life or terror or why the characters are doing all this evil stuff to each other, the engine peters out when the book needs it most, and ends with "they were all bad to each other and now they're dead and/or sad - the end". Is the point that people are evil, and this is what it looks like? I do not find this perspective to reconcile with my own experience of life, things rarely spiral so directly south in such a slow, suspenseful way. And people are rarely so intentionally cruel over a prolonged time by their own hand. "Zone of Interest" is a good commentary on the feelingless distance that most cruel people need to take from their acts. Heathcliff felt everything, and enacted every piece of revenge. He is not an anti-hero, he is the boogeyman. Maybe I needed to have died from TB at the age of 30 to understand.
These are obviously sort of reductive snap takeaways, but the book was completely unexpected and I am happy for having read it, even if I didn't quite like it.
John you MADE my fucking morning with this. You are a champion. I laughed aloud at my desk throughout, but my personal favorite is "ok so is the lesson of this book is to not let romani into high society because they'll steal all your shit over time?" Lol I mean maybe.
I'm so glad you read it, even if it wasn't your favorite. I'm realizing you're absolutely right that it is kind of the genesis of fantasy dual/identity story retold by an old veteran (aside did you ever play Diablo? "Stay awhile and listen?"). And Nelly kills it as a narrator. You have to admit that kind of makes this book that much more riveting though--knowing it's kind of the first. I see the point that it misses on opportunities to delve into the why, there's a lot of action diabolique without background. I feel that's part of the "charm" though, being kind of a breakneck gothic/love/horror story on the moors. No surprise Bram Stoker's Dracula is also one of my all time favs.
A couple other things I connected with:
The feel--the bleak, evocative sense of place is I think what got me/gets me hooked. I also remember going over to friends' houses in Hancock, or visiting my dad's friend Mark in VT when I was young and getting that "mildewed, dark, and sad," There's a unique quiet that allows for reflection of detail, not a super happy feeling but an interesting one maybe. In my memory it was in some instances poverty but in others it was just oddballness. I think this book definitely resonated with that memory, the "over there-ness" between Heights and Grange--especially from a young person's perspective.
Healthcliff/evil--yeah that's a good argument that he's just an evil dude. I thought it was more he's the product of a terrible childhood, but yeah he does it take it pretty far now that I look back. I mean I feel that comes with the territory with gothic fiction, where the characters kind of can't stop running to/from their demons. They don't have time to stop and breathe.
I WILL stand by that it's a romance. I mean Heathcliff had sex with Catherine's damn corpse for god's sake. Gross but an effective way at conveying his insane longing.
Ever read Jane Eyre? That's a biiiiit more Emma vibes, but still pretty dark. I almost liked that one better.
Hope all is good on your end. I'm sad we couldn't make a UK meet work, but we're thinking about ways to see you all. I'm also working on my serve, so next you're in Sconset.
I’m going to read Wurthering Heights now. and if it blows I’m going to leave a strongly worded comment about it!
Lol hell yeah, John. I'm pretty sure you'll like it--I know there are some moor-like wastelands in Norway to help you conjure up the feels. Don't hold back on those strong words if it does blow.
Well it didn't blow, but it wasn't good either. Some rambling thoughts in no particular order:
-I REALLY liked that upon arriving at the Grange, Lockwood says that Nelly "doesn't seem like the gossiping type" and proceeds to receive 300 pages of the hottest gossip known to man, with no holds barred. The Victorian equivalent of a character saying that they are "not here for drama" on a reality show. Funny!
-I wasn't expecting it to be so horrific. I expected Emma, and I got Bram Stoker's Dracula. Beyond the abuse, sickness, and bleak circumstances, there's literally ghosts? A bit out of left field for me, but interesting.
-In general I was shocked how much of modern storytelling was influenced by this, from videogames to fantasy novels (the weary traveler / meta narrator sitting down by the fire). But most of all...fanfiction, books like Twilight have clearly borrowed a ton from the angel / devil bad boy good boy feud archetype. And I have a few strong criticisms of the book, but one is that the most obvious comparisons can be drawn with fantasy and fanfiction. The characters don't feel real or round, and it's basically hypertext fantasy that allows us to humanize someone like Heathcliff who is basically satan incarnate in the actual written word of the book. Even the "good" characters like Edgar are the most annoying nerd you ever met in your entire life. Catherine (mk I) is interesting and round, and I think it's a good reflection on Bronte's own perspective that the women feel more living.
-You talk about romance, but it's no wonder that the adaptations for film and TV have eluded the final 2 parts where Heathcliff becomes the worst person on Earth. These are not saucy or steamy, it's just pain.
-What it really has going for it is drive and engine, for a story so bleak it still manages to be an evocative page turner that the reader thinks about throughout their daily life. It's captivating and the imagery feels much more lived in and real than the characters. You can feel the damp decay of Wurthering Heights, and think back on times in your life when you went to someone's house and felt the same energy. I had that with one of my best friends. I was maybe 9 when I went to his house on a suburban block in St. Louis for the first time and it felt like everything there was mildewed, dark, and sad. I have remembered that house because of this book. It was terrifying.
-In general I thought reading this produced an interesting reflection on class and expectations and contemporary literature vs. Victorian literature. In comparing Wurthering Heights to Twilight (which I cannot stop doing) the Heathcliff character would have redeeming qualities, be on the surface evil, but actually have a heart of gold, while the Edgar character would be pined for, but ultimately friendzoned. The Jacob / Edward dilemma if you will. That's nowhere to be found here. Heathcliff was born evil and he is evil. There's a bit of agency by Earnshaw in there, but generally speaking he is a sword of revenge and all that's redeeming about him is his power to effect that revenge. You root for him against these poshos when he's a kid, and by the end of the book you really regret rooting for him, at any point. At the denouement I wound up wondering "ok so is the lesson of this book is to not let romani into high society because they'll steal all your shit over time?" and with such a blunt instrument as Heathcliff I really do think is the textual reading of the book. Obviously things are more complicated and he does have motive for his revenge, but he's not a real person, he's a horror. HP Lovecraft could never.
-Really liked Joseph's dialect.
-And for me this is the big lacking of the book, is a point. It's an engaging read, it's terrifying, but I never really felt like it approached any ideas that were enlightening for the reader about life or terror or why the characters are doing all this evil stuff to each other, the engine peters out when the book needs it most, and ends with "they were all bad to each other and now they're dead and/or sad - the end". Is the point that people are evil, and this is what it looks like? I do not find this perspective to reconcile with my own experience of life, things rarely spiral so directly south in such a slow, suspenseful way. And people are rarely so intentionally cruel over a prolonged time by their own hand. "Zone of Interest" is a good commentary on the feelingless distance that most cruel people need to take from their acts. Heathcliff felt everything, and enacted every piece of revenge. He is not an anti-hero, he is the boogeyman. Maybe I needed to have died from TB at the age of 30 to understand.
These are obviously sort of reductive snap takeaways, but the book was completely unexpected and I am happy for having read it, even if I didn't quite like it.
John you MADE my fucking morning with this. You are a champion. I laughed aloud at my desk throughout, but my personal favorite is "ok so is the lesson of this book is to not let romani into high society because they'll steal all your shit over time?" Lol I mean maybe.
I'm so glad you read it, even if it wasn't your favorite. I'm realizing you're absolutely right that it is kind of the genesis of fantasy dual/identity story retold by an old veteran (aside did you ever play Diablo? "Stay awhile and listen?"). And Nelly kills it as a narrator. You have to admit that kind of makes this book that much more riveting though--knowing it's kind of the first. I see the point that it misses on opportunities to delve into the why, there's a lot of action diabolique without background. I feel that's part of the "charm" though, being kind of a breakneck gothic/love/horror story on the moors. No surprise Bram Stoker's Dracula is also one of my all time favs.
A couple other things I connected with:
The feel--the bleak, evocative sense of place is I think what got me/gets me hooked. I also remember going over to friends' houses in Hancock, or visiting my dad's friend Mark in VT when I was young and getting that "mildewed, dark, and sad," There's a unique quiet that allows for reflection of detail, not a super happy feeling but an interesting one maybe. In my memory it was in some instances poverty but in others it was just oddballness. I think this book definitely resonated with that memory, the "over there-ness" between Heights and Grange--especially from a young person's perspective.
Healthcliff/evil--yeah that's a good argument that he's just an evil dude. I thought it was more he's the product of a terrible childhood, but yeah he does it take it pretty far now that I look back. I mean I feel that comes with the territory with gothic fiction, where the characters kind of can't stop running to/from their demons. They don't have time to stop and breathe.
I WILL stand by that it's a romance. I mean Heathcliff had sex with Catherine's damn corpse for god's sake. Gross but an effective way at conveying his insane longing.
Ever read Jane Eyre? That's a biiiiit more Emma vibes, but still pretty dark. I almost liked that one better.
Hope all is good on your end. I'm sad we couldn't make a UK meet work, but we're thinking about ways to see you all. I'm also working on my serve, so next you're in Sconset.
Love to Julie and Otto.